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Post by Matt on Jun 24, 2016 15:32:22 GMT -6
I hear the vote was a very close one, I honestly thought they would stay.
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Vincent Van Ghoul
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Post by Vincent Van Ghoul on Jun 25, 2016 8:09:33 GMT -6
Already, people are saying Scotland will force a second independence referendum, understandable seeing as they voted unanimously to stay in the EU. As I understand it, of Scotland votes to secede from the UK, they could end up taking a lot the UKs money with them, since most of the oil the UK produces come from Scottish territory.
Same with Northern Ireland, who also voted mostly for staying.
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Post by toetapping on Jun 25, 2016 13:57:46 GMT -6
Some of the English have regretted they voted yes. Be interesting if they have a second referendum. Will they get a second chance.
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Post by Matt on Jun 25, 2016 14:41:16 GMT -6
Some of the English have regretted they voted yes. Be interesting if they have a second referendum. Will they get a second chance. I doubt they'll do a second referendum, this is probably it, they're out of the EU.
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Vincent Van Ghoul
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Post by Vincent Van Ghoul on Jun 25, 2016 15:11:00 GMT -6
Some of the English have regretted they voted yes. Be interesting if they have a second referendum. Will they get a second chance. I doubt they'll do a second referendum, this is probably it, they're out of the EU. Not necessarily. The referendum was a fancy poll, letting the people of the UK formally announce what they wanted for their countries. The process of leaving has only just begun, barely. It won't start effectively until Cameron leaves, and a new PM is elected. And even then there's uncertainty as to whether the new terms for the UK will be accepted in parliament. Meaning the process could drag on for a while. At least that's how I'm understanding it. If the British people decide to change their mind, which is possible considering the immediate economical repercussions, and Scotland and Ireland now wanting their own independence referendums, I think the EU will of course let them stay, without punishing them somehow. What worries/saddens me is that I fear the Brits were wildly mislead by people like Boris Johnson, who spent a long time driving around a huge red bus with the words "We pay the EU 350,000 Million pounds a week. We could spend that on healthcare." I'm paraphrasing. But from what I understand, if you take into account the money the EU pays back, It's more like 190,000 million a week, leaving some funds for healthcare, if that's where it needs to go. And if the UK leaves entirely, it could cost a whole 350 million just to access the common market, meaning that the argument was completely pointless in the first place.
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steel bat
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Post by steel bat on Jun 25, 2016 17:05:23 GMT -6
And if the UK leaves entirely, it could cost a whole 350 million just to access the common market, meaning that the argument was completely pointless in the first place. That might be the case if we were only to continue trading only with the EU. But surely the whole idea of becoming independant is to allow ourselves to trade directly with whoever we like in the wider world. Thus we could buy New Zealand lamb and dairy products, Canadian wheat, trade directly with the USA and Russia or anyone. And perhaps most importantly with India. India is the growing Super-Economy and perhaps where we should look most keenly for trade deals, especially as Britain has an advantage with our historical links and a large Indian-ethnic community resident here.
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Vincent Van Ghoul
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Post by Vincent Van Ghoul on Jun 25, 2016 17:23:02 GMT -6
You're absolutely right.
The tricky thing is though, that the terms for these new trades are not decided yet, and could easily go either way. Buying lamb from New Zealand would probably cost more off the bat than importing from Germany. Both of which are of course more expensive than remaining in the EU and getting it from any other EU nation.
Another factor is if Ireland and Scotland decide to leave as well, which would further damage Britain's economy.
It's just a damn complicated issue, with so many unknown variables at the moment, and I do genuinely fear that the British made a wrong decision in wanting to leave. I hope that the UK can prosper still, but so far my opinion is that this well end up damaging the UK, badly.
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Post by steel bat on Jun 25, 2016 17:50:33 GMT -6
Got to disagree a bit. NZ produce (when we used to be able to get it) was usually even cheaper than British - don't know how they could do it but they did!
N. Ireland and Scotland if anything cost the English taxpayer and so financially we would probably be better off if they did decide to split. In all fairness, given the way the way the votes were cast, both N.Ireland and Scotland should be asked anew what their wishes would be. But I am a patriot and my hope is that eventually both Countries decide to stay within the UK.
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Vincent Van Ghoul
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Post by Vincent Van Ghoul on Jun 25, 2016 18:37:39 GMT -6
Got to disagree a bit. NZ produce (when we used to be able to get it) was usually even cheaper than British - don't know how they could do it but they did! That sounds incredible, would you happen to know where I could read about how they accomplished that? N. Ireland and Scotland if anything cost the English taxpayer and so financially we would probably be better off if they did decide to split. These days i usually take fellow debaters online at their word, I assume you are knowledgable in the subjects you debate and I trust you wouldn't intentionally mislead me, however in this particular case I would love a source or two for this. It sounds extraordinary the the populations of both N. Ireland and Scotland, their taxes, labors and produce somehow cost the UK money. EDIT: Saw this comment earlier, I think it makes a very interesting point:
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Post by steel bat on Jun 26, 2016 16:38:06 GMT -6
On New Zealand produce, my answer is anecdotal. I'm of an age where I can remember before Britain joined the EU and, in my memory, NZ lamb and butter was cheaper than British. I have found this link which may shed more light - beefandlambmatters.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/why-uk-imports-lamb-from-new-zealand.htmlIt would seem to be the case that we still import a sizeable amount from NZ but I would imagine there would be EU tarriffs on that. Before my post above referring to Scotland and N.Ireland I had looked at this site - www.quora.com/Financially-how-much-do-Scotland-Wales-Northern-Ireland-and-England-contribute-to-the-UKs-economy-as-a-whole - which perhaps I ought to have quoted at the time as a reference. A glance at the map clearly shows the South East of England basically props up the rest of the nation. One will see that in Scotlands finances the figure includes North Sea oil - which the Scots seem to think is exclusively theirs. A lot of investors South of the border might dispute that premise. And - it should be remembered that oil prices have fallen considerably thus reducing such returns. An interesting article which seems to take it as a given that no leader will come forward to lead the country out of Europe and our voting has been useless. It must surely follow then that this is no longer a democracy and the Will of the People can simply be ignored. Indeed perhaps we are in effect now slaves of the European Empire and should all shut up and get back to our labours. Good luck to whoever wants to try explaining that to us Brits. The one thing we do know is how to deal with dictators.
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